Memo to OWS: Ten things that free marketeers actually think
HT: Carpe Diem.
A sample.
1. Free-marketeers resent the bank bailouts
2. What has happened since 2008 is not capitalism.
AM: I would add, the forces leading up to 2008 were not particularly 'capitalist' either.
3. If you want the rich to pay more, create a flatter and simpler tax system.
4. Those of us who believe in small government are not motivated by the desire to make the rich richer.
5. We are not against equality. We generally recognise the benefits in Scandinavian-style homogeneity.
6. Nor, by the way, does state intervention seem to be an effective way to promote equality.
7. We're not on the side of vested interests or elites.
8. Capitalism, with all its imperfections, is the fairest scheme yet tried.
AM: Excellent points. OWS protesters do a good job of bashing strawmen, but rarely engage with what libertarians and pro=market people actually think.
Can you say bullshit...
ReplyDeletelow tax rates don't mean more taxes. And it was greed and profits that caused the problems we have today.
Also you're not concerned within inequality.
Gimme a break!
Who is Anon, is it HM or Angela? Do you guys/girls ever say anything with substance or do you just troll the blogosphere, inserting your shallow comments without much thought? Pathetic.
ReplyDeleteLol, will you identify yourself Anon? You know the saying, 'don't feed the trolls'.
ReplyDeleteHerb,
ReplyDeleteit's not me! I don't troll
AM: my rejoiner
a) free market policies made bailouts necessary so no
b) capitalism made 2008 and I don't know how you can see if differently?
c) flatter tax? how is that going to generate more revenue?
d) ok, i agree with 4 but maybe that's just the result
e) how many times have I heard you say that inequality doesn't matter?
f) the state can do it through redistributive policies! high tax rates for top earners sand strong social programs reduce inequality!
g) to the last point: no, mixed economies with a healthy dose of gov. interventio nwork the best.
not trollling here,
HM
For HM:
ReplyDeleteflatter tax, close loop holes, reduce complexity, broaden the base. You can make it revenue neutral: say 20 percent on ever dollar after X ($40 K, eg).
I do think it matters that everyone is moving up, even if not at the same speed. So yes, in that sense, not as concerned about inequality as general improvemnets in the welfare of the poor.
Libertarians/"Free Marketeers" sound more and more like Communists everyday.
ReplyDelete"Capitalism/Communism has never really been tried, we just need a purer version of the system and everything will be fixed. America/China isn't true Capitalism/Communism that's why the system failed."
Then they talk to themselves and start new party after new party.
Idlewild.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comment. That's fair refutation of an argument that no one is really making. Maybe a good criticism of some libertarian political movements - I don't know, having not really been involved in any. I think the point that free marketeers make about the financial crisis, is that it doesn't make any sense to call it a failure of capitalism when there were so many failures of government intervention: the creation of a housing bubble, the subsidization of risk etc... Free markets have absolutely been tried, and they work quite well.
Sorry, I meant it more as an observation on point 2 of the MEMO. Insisting that x country (and its problems) isn't an example of y theory - hasn't worked all that well for Communists and probably won't work that well for "Free Marketeers".
ReplyDeleteI guess it is more of a communications consideration for anyone hoping to promote a free market system but like you suggested you wouldn't be involved in that.
I think its a bit more concrete, or at least it should be in discussions of how to improve the stability of the financial system. There are a range of options that are theoretically on the table: but where you end up will depend in part on your understanding of the causes. If you see the financial crisis as proof that firms have no concept of risk, then there is a strong case for government oversight; if you see it, instead, as an instance of government failure - through the creation of moral hazard, subsidizing cheap credit, low interest rates etc... then there is reason to think more gov might not be the answer. Of course, these are hard questions that cannot be divorced in anyway from ideology.
ReplyDeleteAM - libertarians are exactly like communists in that way, brilliant observation by Idlewild!
ReplyDeleteYou always look to blame government for capitalism's failures; it's never the benign market, always the evil government.
HM