So Warren's argument is this: Nobody got rich on their own; they benefited from public services that "the rest of us paid for." She cites: roads; police and firemen; and education as public services that help out businesses. She concludes, that the business people "get to keep a big chunk" of their profits, but part of the "underlying social contract" is that you have to give some money back.
This is a terrible and terribly confused argument. On the surface, it is plausible, and for that reason, dangerous. It needs to be put to rest.
1. The fact is, businesses and rich people pay most of the income taxes in the United States. the last CBO estimate was that the top 10 percent paid about 70 percent of federal taxes. About 50 percent paid nothing. So, who is this "rest of us" that she's talking about?
2. State and local governments pay for police, fire, and roads. These are services that the government should be delivering. They are non-excludable public goods. They lower transaction costs and allow businesses to function. In that limited sense, Warren has a point. Mind you, it's a point that nobody disagrees with.
That being said, these services are a very small "fraction" of what government does. In the U.S., the main federal government budget items are: national defense (most of which doesn't benefit anyone); Medicare; Medicaid; and social security. These don't have any obvious benefit to business. If the government stuck to what it does well (police/military/roads/fire, law enforcement etc...), Warren would have a case, but taxes would be FAR LOWER as would expenses. "If all the government did was build roads, educate kids, and provide for public order, it’d be a libertarian paradise almost up to the standards of Ron Paul. Then our government could easily be funded exclusively by taxes on the rich", Rich Lowry says.
In addition: there is tons of waste. The Fed subsidies big businesses; agriculture; some exporters; bails out huge banks; creditors; saves car companies; takes on the risk of housing loans; engages in "stimulus" .
3. What about education? As my favorite economist Russ Roberts points out: despite record levels of education spending, the U.S. public system is pretty poor. The money is poorly spent, and the output is of low quality. Businesses often have to retrain workers. Should they get a refund, then?
4. What about the basic principle of the argument? Rich Lowry has a smart argument: Focusing on infrastructure as the crucial support of entrepreneurial activity is like crediting the guy who built young Bill Gates’s garage with the start of Microsoft. Yes, Gates needed a roof over his head, and garages are useful. But it was Gates who had the ambition to do more in his garage than store his car and lawn-care products. Incalculably more important than his physical surroundings were his imagination and business sense. Could Gates have done it in Mogadishu or Peshawar? Certainly not. But the goods cited by Warren as the foundation of a workable business environment are extremely minimal.
5. Furthermore, if we link taxation to benefit, there is even a case for regressive taxation. Roberts smartly notes::
The other part that's missing from Ms. Warren's narrative is that all Americans, rich and poor, benefit from the public spending she mentions. It isn't just Steve Jobs who benefits because Apple iPads come to the Apple Store on public roads. All of Apple's customers benefit too. If her argument is that taxes should be related to benefit, should we raise taxes on the poor and the middle class? Sergey Brin and Larry Page became billionaires by creating Google, but the gains to the rest of us are much larger. Messrs. Brin and Page aren't able to capture anything close to the benefits they've created for the rest of society. So should the rest of us pay a bigger share of the taxes than Google's founders?
6. In addition, Warren cites the "social contract" as a reason for higher taxation, but the argument actually has a far more predatory tone: if it were not for the police, she asks, "what would stop marauding bandits" from ransacking the factory. The state was never a social contract. As Charles Tilly once said, it was always a protection racket. In the same way, we might imagine Tony Soprano telling a local pizzeria owner: "you need me for protection. It would be a shame if something happened to your business. Go ahead, keep a big chunk though.
7. Finally, Mike Munger at KPC has a great analogy: If I buy a guard dog to protect my house - ... does that mean the dog owns the house? Sure, I have to pay the guard dog services (police etc...), I have to tolerate some dog poop (waste); but no one would make the case that the dog has some sort of claim to my wealth produced from the house.
1.It is alarming to say the least that the top 10% of wealth earners are even able to afford to pay 70% of federal taxes and still have so much left over, to say nothing of the amount of tax evasion that goes on at that level when compared to the dollar value of tax evasion at the middle and lower class earners.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, it is retarded to have a system where only the top 10% are able to provide for themselves. I think that's where she is going with this.
If you redistribute wealth differently, then a greater number of participants are able to invest in themselves and hence, their environment(economy).
Besides which, isn't competition a good thing?
How does it benefit anyone to have only a small portion of your population able to compete their ideas against others?
2.Some parts of the lower end of the economy wouldn't function without medicare or social security.
It is to the direct benefit of a company that their Walmart employees are able to afford to eat after their dismal pay checks come in, not to mention the value of having a staff that is provided flu and cold shots at the cost of the state, etc. (not to suggest that the economy is dependent on such services, but medicare and social security do support people who work at low end jobs and help them to get to work or whatever)
Agreed about the state of excess waste though.
3.Who is getting this absurd refund? The person who paid for the course, or the company who is doing the retraining?
Besides which, critiquing investment in education because of its inefficient model is ridiculous.
You don't stop investing in education because you're getting it wrong, you change the way you educate.
(fun side note, NASA has received less money in its entire history of existence than the bank bail out. Maybe you change up your priorities and stop jerking off wall street and start teaching your youth?)
4.No argument here. The garage clearly has value, maybe not as much to Gates as roads and plumbing count towards the economy at large, but roads alone do not make an economy of much depth.
5.Er, que? I'm quite sure the "benefit" Roberts so smartly noted was in reference to the actual dollar amount that came out of Google or what have you.
It's a perfect picture of absurdity to try to evaluate the value one persons receives with Google compared to another and try to match a dollar value to it.
Unless you think it makes sense for a person to pay for a movie after they watch it, and the cost of the movie would be equal to how much they enjoyed it ......
6.Agree and disagree on this one. It is true about the nature of the state, but the state couldn't function for long without social contracts, which are sometimes unspoken or unwritten.
7.The doggy analogy is a convenient one. Does a dog expect the same level of compensation or dignity as a person?
Besides which, a person getting a guard dog is a tad different than someone building a road and trying to tie it to an economy. A little different anyhow ...
LV: come on... don't make me rant this early in the morning. ..
ReplyDelete"If you redistribute wealth differently, then a greater number of participants are able to invest in themselves and hence, their environment."
If you give people money that they didn't earn, taking it from those who earned it, you discourge "investment" on both levels. Anyway, you can't redistribute investment, if you think about it (its pure accounting). You can only redistribute consumption.
"Some parts of the lower end of the economy wouldn't function without medicare or social security."
Ok, come on. Social Security is a tax on working people to pay for people who are retired. The people who benefit are already out of the work force!!!! How does that help companies? Also, see my example of Private SS in Chile. Furthermore, medicare is only for retired people on social security! Same issue. As for medicaide, lots of people don't have it. Either they have employer provided insurance (via walmart), private insurance, or they are uninsured. Also, there was once a time when this program didn't exist at all! Yet miraculously, the economy continues to function....
Your third point proves my point: if the person getting the education is the one who gets the refund (and thus who benefits), then how can you make the argument that "education" is justification for taxing employers? The entire argument is based on the employer benefiting!
I don't understand your point about google? it clearly provides benefits to "society" far beyond what it "makes" in profit. You benefit for free. As do I. And that's fine. We wouldn't make tax policy out of this principle.
"Social contracts" are always unwritten: because this is a buzz word that poeple use whenever it is convenient. "you have to accept higher taxes, it's on the 'social contract'... haha... no. This doesn't exist. There is only state power.
Ok, the dog is just what I buy to guard my house. Like the state. Not like a person. The state wastes things; a dog poops. I need the guard dog. It serves a function. But it doesn't OWN THE HOUSE!
1. what a generously vague definition you have of "earn".
ReplyDeleteIt is at the height of shallow interpretations to presume that a person only receives benefits after earning it.
Ever heard of loyalty?
When people make cabinets, is it based on who is most qualified or most trust worthy?
2. Again, deep levels of presumption about social security. There are different things offered at different levels.
Some recipients only receive bus fare or food stamps, others receive rent money or more.
Let's try to pretend this isn't about stealing Warren Buffet's money here.
3. Monstrous.
4. Quite simply simple.
I thought the movie theater analogy would have helped. Obviously not.
Define empirical value, if you can.
You'd be the first human to ever succeed, by the way.
5. Again. A one dimensional perception being "forced" onto an entire cultural system made up of several forces. Must be nice.
6. And now on to the nursery rhyme portion ....
LV: I'm trying navigate my way through your maze of mistakes and logical errors to discover your poitn. But I'd prefer like to hear why you think Warren is right, rather than embark on a point by point correction of your mistakes (like how you seem to confuse the program "Social Security" with Welfare, food stamps, and social housing); or trying to comprehend what why I have to "define empirical value" or figuring out what it means to "force onto a an entire cultural system made up of several forces" or why that "must be nice." I'd rather just here what your argument is.
ReplyDelete"hear", not "here."
ReplyDeleteLol, "maze of mistakes and logical errors". Gold.
ReplyDelete